Roger Ebert put out a blog post on July 5th titled I’m a Proud Brainiac in response to response to his review of Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, and it’s been making the rounds at movie sites everywhere. Before I start responding to that response, I want to list several links and get a few things out of the way.
Roger Ebert’s I’m a Proud Brainiac article
Roger Ebert’s Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen review
My Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen review
Roger Ebert’s Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull review
My Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull review
I encourage you to read the article in question, because it makes a lot of great points on film criticism, but somewhere within the ultimate theory he’s wrong. In general, the article is defending what critics do, especially the doing of it from a learned perspective.
Here are a few quotes to give a general jumping off point:
“But am I out of touch? It’s not a critic’s job to reflect box office taste. The job is to describe my reaction to a film, to account for it, and evoke it for others. The job of the reader is not to find his opinion applauded or seconded, but to evaluate another opinion against his own. But you know that. We’ve been over that ground many times. What disturbs me is when I’m specifically told that I know too much about movies, have “studied” them, go into them “too deep,” am always looking for things the average person doesn’t care about, am always mentioning things like editing or cinematography, and am forever comparing films to other films.”
“It’s true that many Americans have an active suspicion and dislike of the “educated.” They ask, “what makes you an expert?” when they’re really asking, “what gives you the right to disagree with me?” The term “college graduate” has become in some circles a negative. Hostility is especially focused on the “Eastern Elite,” to the chagrin of we Midwestern Elitists. To describe someone as a “Harvard student” is to dismiss them as beneath consideration. You can often hear the words “so-called” in front of words like scientist, educator, philosopher. I don’t believe this is intended to imply that the person involved is not a scientist, etc., but to suggest that no one calling himself such a thing is to be trusted–because he is no doubt many other undesirable things.”
“So let’s focus on those who seriously believe “Transformers” is one of the year’s best films. Are these people wrong? Yes. They are wrong. I am fond of the story I tell about Gene Siskel. When a so-called film critic defended a questionable review by saying, “after all, it’s opinion,” Gene told him: “There is a point when a personal opinion shades off into an error of fact. When you say ‘The Valachi Papers’ is a better film than ‘The Godfather,’ you are wrong.” Quite true. We should respect differing opinions up to certain point, and then it’s time for the wise to blow the whistle.”
“Those who think “Transformers” is a great or even a good film are, may I tactfully suggest, not sufficiently evolved. Film by film, I hope they climb a personal ladder into the realm of better films, until their standards improve. Those people contain multitudes. They deserve films that refresh the parts others do not reach. They don’t need to spend a lifetime with the water only up to their toes.”
First, let me just say a few things in order to be clear about myself and my position. I am an educator and a philosopher and have the papers to prove it. I’ve had several film classes, and read all the books. Among the movies I would list as my favorites are: McCabe & Mrs. Miller, Lost in Translation, Gosford Park, Lawrence of Arabia, Rear Window, Citizen Kane, and all that high-brow, boring shit.
And, before anyone gets the wrong idea, Transformers (whichever) is not remotely in the realm of great films. ”Good” is a bit trickier, because it could mean just about anything, but in the end I wouldn’t fight very hard. But, mostly because it doesn’t mean anything.
On the other hand, I suggest that we should respect differing viewpoints on film criticism up to a certain point, and then it’s time for the wise to blow the whistle. I have a great deal of respect for Mr. Ebert, and he can write the hell out of a movie review, but I’ll go top trumps movie brainiac with him any day of the week. I can scoff and look down my nose at people who don’t like My Dinner with Andre better than anybody.
The problem is that there’s a kind of straw man going on in Mr. Ebert’s response post. Did someone send in an email that said Transformers was better than Casablanca? I guess. Is that person wrong? Yes (and I would put Casablanca lower on my list than probably any movie critic on the planet). If you think Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen is the best movie ever, you’re not only wrong, you’re an idiot.
Is that really why there is such a backlash against critics over this movie? Everyone rolling their eyes at critics thinks this is the best movie ever? No. Average Joe America has their knickers in a twist because the movie was so hated, and so spat upon with outrage that the critics are telling them that any positive reaction to the film at all makes you a moron. This is not the best movie ever, and a large percentage of the populace that is rather unhappy with movie critics right now would agree. However, it is not the worst movie ever by a country mile, and the inexplicable inconsistency is what is fueling the fire more than anything.
Slashfilm.com recently put up a list of the worst reviewed highest grossing movies of all time, which naturally has the new Transformers on top, and I think the list can help make the case of average upset movie-goer. Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen has a RottenTomatoes.com freshness rating of 19%, which is just tremendously low even for bad movies. Bad Boys 2 has a freshness rating of 22%, for example, and if that’s not a worse movie than Transformers I’ll eat my hat.
We ease into the trouble with number two on that list – The Da Vinci Code, which has a freshness rating of 24%. Not only that, Roger Ebert gave it 3 out of 4 stars, as compared to the one star he gave Transformers. He also managed this quote from his review – “Yes, the plot is absurd, but then most movie plots are absurd. That’s what we pay to see.”
Now, here’s Joe America saying to himself, “What?” See, he’s seen The Da Vinci Code and thought it was a dumbass mess (and good for him), and not only does he read about it getting three stars, but that it does so apparently despite the absurd plot which is dismissed as simply the norm. But, turn around and Brainiac is destroying Transformers as basically utterly without merit. Where’s he supposed to go with that?
Next on the list is Pirates of the Caribbean: At World’s End, which is painfully horrible, and just excruciating to sit through. Ebert hasn’t even reviewed it, unless I’m missing something, but it has a RottenTomatoes freshness of 45%. That’s not really all that bad.
Move on a little ways, through some really awful films that are significantly higher rated than Transformers, and we get to The Day After Tomorrow. Also at 45% on the freshness meter. Here’s Joe America again thinking that movie was pretty stupid, or at least not something that’s miles better than Transformers, and Mr. Ebert gives it 3 out of 4 stars again, and has this to say – “So, yes, the movie is profoundly silly. What surprised me is that it’s also very scary. The special effects are on such an awesome scale that the movie works despite its cornball plotting.”
Now wait just a damn minute. Joe America is getting a little ticked off, not because you’re championing the intellectual in film, but because you could give that quote about that (or any) movie, and at the same time demolish Transformers. The ridiculous fanboys do not quite come together to make up the support the film is getting, or the anti-critic sentiment pouring out in waves. Generally, the idea is not, “Hey Dumbass, you don’t think this is the best movie ever? Then you’re useless.” The idea is, “What the hell is going on here?”
If you move on to the end of the list, and technically off it, you find two more movies mentioned – Star Wars Episode I – The Phantom Menace, and Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. These movies aren’t on the list, because their freshness ratings are too high to count as being among the most poorly rated. Phantom Menace has a freshness rating of 63%, and Crystal Skull sits comfortably at 76%. Much of Joe America is fit to spit.
Phantom Menace is one of the most awful, insulting, direct-to-video-game titles I’ve ever forced myself to sit all the way through. Mr. Ebert gives it 3 1/2 out of 4 stars, and for all that he goes on quite a while about it, his review can rather easily be reduced to, “It looks really cool!” Think I’m exaggerating? You read it, and tell me what else he has to say about the thing. He even manages this quote – “Sometimes our common sense undermines a sequence (for instance, when Jar Jar’s people and the good guys fight a ‘droid army, it becomes obvious that the droids are such bad fighters, they should be returned for a refund). But mostly I was happy to drink in the sights on the screen…”
Seriously?
How about Crystal Skull? I don’t know about you, but at the end of Crystal Skull I was pissed. It started off with Indy surviving a nuclear blast by climbing in a refrigerator, and it was all downhill on the stupidity meter from there. Mr. Ebert gave it 3 1/2 out of 4 stars again, and starts out his review with – “…if you, like me, are a lover of pulp fiction. What I want is goofy action–lots of it. I want man-eating ants, swordfights between two people balanced on the backs of speeding jeeps, subterranean caverns of gold, vicious femme fatales, plunges down three waterfalls in a row, and the explanation for flying saucers. And throw in lots of monkeys.”
Transformers is a pretty stupid movie, but we’ve already seen that stupid doesn’t rule out upwards of 3 out of 4 stars, but at the end I’d had a bit of fun. Moreover, I only got the impression that the movie was just trying to throw out some wacky shit because it could and have a big, dumb, fun time. Generally, these are ideas that Mr. Ebert sees fit to give pretty good reviews if the right person is behind it. It’s pretty stupid, but I never got the impression the movie was calling me stupid. I cannot say the same for either Phantom Menace or Crystal Skull.
What is Joe America supposed to do, and more importantly, what is he supposed to do with this call to arms for that which is intellectual? What do we make of, “Those who think “Transformers” is a great or even a good film are, may I tactfully suggest, not sufficiently evolved.”? Especially considering we have to fit the idea into the whole realm of film, which apparently includes high marks for Phantom Menace, Crystal Skull, and The Da Vinci Code, given what is said about these films? Don’t forget – “Yes, the plot is absurd, but then most movie plots are absurd. That’s what we pay to see.” Guess what, I don’t. And, what intellectual are you reviewing movies at with that statement? I don’t pay to see absurd movie plots, and I don’t especially enjoy tuning in to hear whichever excuse for giving Lucas, Spielberg, and Howard high marks works at the moment no matter what they make.
The populace that is throwing their money at Transformers week after week are not thumbing their nose at the critical reaction because, “screw all that intelligence, depth, and talk of cinematography,” but because something weird is going on. Also, because maybe they think there is something more to film criticism, not because they don’t want all that high-brow information, but because they want something more.
Mr. Ebert mentions in his response article that, “It’s not a critic’s job to reflect box office taste. The job is to describe my reaction to a film, to account for it, and evoke it for others.” That’s true, but I don’t think it’s anything like the whole truth. When I read a movie review, I certainly want the critic to describe his reaction and account for it. Evoking it for me might be a different question altogether actually, but fair enough. I want all that good direction, cinematography, shot composition, and all that jazz too, when it’s meaningful. I watched Dark City with Mr. Ebert’s commentary track, and loved every minute of it.
But, I don’t want to just find out if a critic liked a movie, I want to know if I’m going to like it. Spitting vitriol doesn’t accomplish that task to any degree at all. Reading Roger Ebert’s review of Transformers didn’t tell me anything I didn’t know before I saw it, except “Big Thumbs Down.” Reading Phantom Menace‘s glowing review that really said nothing apart from, “It looks fabulous,” and, “Big Thumbs Up,” didn’t prepare me in any way for the garbage I endured at the theater.
Much of the public is not real happy with what’s going on, and they have a right to be. A food critic who delivers the review, “This restaurant has the worst food ever… I mean, it’s pizza after all,” isn’t serving a function, no matter how eloquently he writes it up for 1,000 words. That critic is all the more confusing and irritating when next week’s review is, “You’ve got to go to this restaurant! This pizza is wonderful. Just look at it!” When he long-windedly describes every detail of how beautiful he found it, he isn’t helping anything.
Now spin me a treatise on appreciating the subtle combination of flavors to be found in the five-star restaurants of the world, and I don’t know what to make of anything. There’s something about film criticism that is being left out and/or abused, and I think that’s the real complaint.
Interestingly (let’s say), I recently became addicted to flickchart.com. It’s a site that has you pick between two movies over and over… forever basically, and compiles a list of movies based on your picks. There are no rules or any sort of guidance whatsoever. Is it which is the better movie, which you personally love more, which you’d rather watch again right now if you had to pick one? Who knows? It’s whatever you decide to do with it, and sometimes it’s really hard.
I’ve generally taken an “if I were going to be forced to watch one of these right now” approach to things, but that doesn’t always quite work out. There are a lot of movies I’d watch again before I choose to watch Rear Window for like the fifteenth time, but I can’t bring myself to not pick Rear Window over most of them. How do you not pick Rear Window? On the other hand, Elf is so high on my list it’s just farcical, because even though it’s rather silly and stupid, I’ll be damned if I couldn’t watch it 100 times.
Just before I started writing this I was given this choice – Papillon vs. View from the Top. I have to pick one. What on Earth do I do? Now I like Papillon even more than most critics. I don’t really know why that particular movie stands out so much for me, but it does. View from the Top is a completely stupid bit of nonsense that is almost universally hated. I have a sort of very mild like for that one. But, I had to pick View from the Top given the choice. Papillon is not quite something like Rear Window to me, and I will never watch it again… ever. On the other hand, you wouldn’t have to tie me up to get me to watch View from the Top, though I might try to suggest something else. Three Amigos! vs. Cinema Paradiso? I love Cinema Paradiso!
There’s something going on that would force me, practically against my will, to pick View from the Top. I might prefer Gosford Park, or Lost in Translation, but I can’t just look snooty and deny that I could watch Strange Brew all day long. There are parts missing from much of the world of film criticism, and it is a part that causes much of the public to roll its eyes and say, “Screw you. I like pizza.” At some point the wise get to step up and say, “you’re wrong.”
The worlds have to collide somewhere, and if you’re going to tell me Phantom Menace not only passes but gets nearly the highest possible rating while Transformers is torn limb from limb, you better have a story that goes with that. And, it better be a story more interesting than, “This has great special effects whereas that has great special effects, but I don’t like it… and it’s loud.”
If you want to spend a few hundred thousand words hashing out the best movies ever, and you want to get all deep and “movie theory” serious about the details of position and why The Seven Samurai, Jesus of Montreal, and The Three Colors Trilogy (as one entity) should be on it, but Casablanca shouldn’t… I’m your guy.
But, don’t give Crystal Skull 3 1/2 stars and tell me it’s raining.



![Reblog this post [with Zemanta]](http://img.zemanta.com/reblog_e.png?x-id=d9b65d67-7e74-4ec2-aab9-91a1756321d3)
Scott Pilgrim vs. The World Movie Review
Date Night Blu-Ray Review And Giveaway
Eat Pray Love Movie Review
The Other Guys Movie Review
Cop Out Blu-Ray Review And Giveaway
Inception Movie Review
Winnebago Man Review
Marc,
I have only recently discovered your site and I have to say – you are the man! Finally, someone is standing up to Ebert, who, let's face it, has been going off of his rocker lately (The Mummy: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor – 3 1/2 stars; the first three Fast and Furious movies? 3 – 3 1/2 stars, Indy 4, all of the Star Wars prequels! All of them – 3-3 1/2 stars!) I don't really mind if critics like a movie or not, but to have one call me “silly” for liking a film is absurd! I think Ebert had a REALLY bad day (maybe even a headache) and wandered into “Transformers” already pissed off … his review (and I've commented on this several times on his blog) does nothing to praise the technical achievments of the film. So you didn't like the plot? Fine. The acting? Understandable. But give credit where credit is due! “Transformers” has some of the best FX I've ever seen; and some pretty damned impressive action sequences to boot. No one would have raised an eyebrow had he given it 2-2 1/2 stars (which I thought he would, based on his review for the original “Transformers”) – but one star? It would seem he walked into this movie ready to tear it apart … and it shows! Kudos for standing up for us “insufficiently evolved” peeps who enjoy a little Michael Bay every now and again!
Marc,
I have only recently discovered your site and I have to say – you are the man! Finally, someone is standing up to Ebert, who, let's face it, has been going off of his rocker lately (The Mummy: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor – 3 1/2 stars; the first three Fast and Furious movies? 3 – 3 1/2 stars, Indy 4, all of the Star Wars prequels! All of them – 3-3 1/2 stars!) I don't really mind if critics like a movie or not, but to have one call me “silly” for liking a film is absurd! I think Ebert had a REALLY bad day (maybe even a headache) and wandered into “Transformers” already pissed off … his review (and I've commented on this several times on his blog) does nothing to praise the technical achievments of the film. So you didn't like the plot? Fine. The acting? Understandable. But give credit where credit is due! “Transformers” has some of the best FX I've ever seen; and some pretty damned impressive action sequences to boot. No one would have raised an eyebrow had he given it 2-2 1/2 stars (which I thought he would, based on his review for the original “Transformers”) – but one star? It would seem he walked into this movie ready to tear it apart … and it shows! Kudos for standing up for us “insufficiently evolved” peeps who enjoy a little Michael Bay every now and again!
CRYSTAL SKULL actually deserved 4 stars…
This may be the reason why I only read your reviews. Not that I agree 100% with how you feel about a movie, but you tell me why you liked them, what worked for you, what didn't and why.
I get that you can watch a movie that's silly and still like it. I've seen Gods Must Be Crazy twenty times and I still like it, though I still think that movie just came about because a documentary film crew was affected inadvertently by a local hallucinogen. I don't put it against my favorite film of all time (Notorious), but then I only watch Notorious maybe once every five or ten years. There are number of great films that I am glad I watched because I learned something, felt something, but have no interest in watching again, like Sophy's Choice or Schindler's List. I like being happy and like being entertained.
Lots of people do and no one, in my opinion, should be made to feel small by enjoying something that is simple-minded fun. Note, I consider myself a brainiac myself, repeatedly defend education, and deplore the current trend of anti-intellectualism. However, positions that foster the image of “I'm an expert so if you don't agree with me, there's something wrong with you” are partly why there is an anti-intellectual bias.
Being expert doesn't mean you can't be questioned or can't even disappoint a devotee of your work. If one's review is all about who's names are over the title and not the movie, maybe one has lost sight of what one is doing there.
Your points about the reviews struck a chord with me. Like many an aspiring fiction writer, I give and receive feedback fiction, often of drastically varying caliber. I know I appreciate feedback that says, “I like the dialog,” or “This made me laugh,” and “This seemed rushed,” or “I didn't understand this reaction.” Good points or bad points, I can work with that and know what worked, what didn't and why. Someone who says just “This bites,” or “Great work, I loved it!” – I can't do anything with that.
CRYSTAL SKULL actually deserved 4 stars…
This may be the reason why I only read your reviews. Not that I agree 100% with how you feel about a movie, but you tell me why you liked them, what worked for you, what didn't and why.
I get that you can watch a movie that's silly and still like it. I've seen Gods Must Be Crazy twenty times and I still like it, though I still think that movie just came about because a documentary film crew was affected inadvertently by a local hallucinogen. I don't put it against my favorite film of all time (Notorious), but then I only watch Notorious maybe once every five or ten years. There are number of great films that I am glad I watched because I learned something, felt something, but have no interest in watching again, like Sophy's Choice or Schindler's List. I like being happy and like being entertained.
Lots of people do and no one, in my opinion, should be made to feel small by enjoying something that is simple-minded fun. Note, I consider myself a brainiac myself, repeatedly defend education, and deplore the current trend of anti-intellectualism. However, positions that foster the image of “I'm an expert so if you don't agree with me, there's something wrong with you” are partly why there is an anti-intellectual bias.
Being expert doesn't mean you can't be questioned or can't even disappoint a devotee of your work. If one's review is all about who's names are over the title and not the movie, maybe one has lost sight of what one is doing there.
Your points about the reviews struck a chord with me. Like many an aspiring fiction writer, I give and receive feedback fiction, often of drastically varying caliber. I know I appreciate feedback that says, “I like the dialog,” or “This made me laugh,” and “This seemed rushed,” or “I didn't understand this reaction.” Good points or bad points, I can work with that and know what worked, what didn't and why. Someone who says just “This bites,” or “Great work, I loved it!” – I can't do anything with that.
I never leave comments on websites, but that was a superb article. Well done!
I never leave comments on websites, but that was a superb article. Well done!
Thanks for the comment. I didn't know about The Mummy or the Fast and Furious movies, so thanks for adding that to the general conversation.
As I tried to imply (but perhaps didn't), I think it has almost become a “kind of movie” reaction for Ebert, and it seems odd.
Cheers
Well, according to Gene Siskel I get to say you're wrong, and I don't have the impression in any way that Siskel would stand behind Ebert's rating of Crystal Skull.
Thanks so much for putting so much time in adding to my blog.
Some of the best movie reviews I've ever read were for movies I absolutely hated, nevermind not agreeing 100%.
When it comes to movies specifically, I think the expert thing is great generally, and that's why I do think people should read Ebert's blog post… it's got good stuff in it. But, the thing is, I really think there's drawing a line and then there's drawing a line. I also think a lot of people, critics and fans alike, lose touch with utter subjectivity of film. Do we at some point get to say people are wrong as the Gene Siskel quote states? I think we do actually. But, that's got to built around the subjectivity.
The Godfather just doesn't do it for me, and that's pretty much because I just down like mob movies. I just don't care. Someone else may hate or love science-fiction as a general rule. Fried Green Tomatoes had no chance with me, and Fried Green Tomatoes shouldn't care.
As I said, something is often lost when the point somehow isn't about getting the reader to know if they will like the movie. That's supposed to be the whole excuse for movie critics really. You open the paper and read reviews of what happens to be playing, so you know what to go to see.
The general viewpoint of writing reviews should make it very possible for someone to say, “Wow. That was really a great review. I have no interest in seeing that film, but that was a great review.”
I've had that response to some of the best reviews I've ever read, and as perhaps just that little added bonus, a movie I will never see still got a chance to provide something to me.
Thanks again for the comment.
Cheers.
I really appreciate it.
Cheers.
Hilarious. I've left that comment for you before.
???
Oh wait. I figured it out.
Thanks for the comment. I didn't know about The Mummy or the Fast and Furious movies, so thanks for adding that to the general conversation.
As I tried to imply (but perhaps didn't), I think it has almost become a “kind of movie” reaction for Ebert, and it seems odd.
Cheers
Well, according to Gene Siskel I get to say you're wrong, and I don't have the impression in any way that Siskel would stand behind Ebert's rating of Crystal Skull.
Thanks so much for putting so much time in adding to my blog.
Some of the best movie reviews I've ever read were for movies I absolutely hated, nevermind not agreeing 100%.
When it comes to movies specifically, I think the expert thing is great generally, and that's why I do think people should read Ebert's blog post… it's got good stuff in it. But, the thing is, I really think there's drawing a line and then there's drawing a line. I also think a lot of people, critics and fans alike, lose touch with utter subjectivity of film. Do we at some point get to say people are wrong as the Gene Siskel quote states? I think we do actually. But, that's got to built around the subjectivity.
The Godfather just doesn't do it for me, and that's pretty much because I just down like mob movies. I just don't care. Someone else may hate or love science-fiction as a general rule. Fried Green Tomatoes had no chance with me, and Fried Green Tomatoes shouldn't care.
As I said, something is often lost when the point somehow isn't about getting the reader to know if they will like the movie. That's supposed to be the whole excuse for movie critics really. You open the paper and read reviews of what happens to be playing, so you know what to go to see.
The general viewpoint of writing reviews should make it very possible for someone to say, “Wow. That was really a great review. I have no interest in seeing that film, but that was a great review.”
I've had that response to some of the best reviews I've ever read, and as perhaps just that little added bonus, a movie I will never see still got a chance to provide something to me.
Thanks again for the comment.
Cheers.
I really appreciate it.
Cheers.
Hilarious. I've left that comment for you before.
???
Oh wait. I figured it out.
Hmm, maybe the problem is you need to choose different critics to revere – for instance, here are two splendid reviews of terrible movies Indiana Jones And The Kingdom of The Crystal Skull and The Happening that all Joe Six-Packs and Hockey Moms will love!
Hmm, maybe the problem is you need to choose different critics to revere – for instance, here are two splendid reviews of terrible movies Indiana Jones And The Kingdom of The Crystal Skull and The Happening that all Joe Six-Packs and Hockey Moms will love!
“The worlds have to collide somewhere, and if you’re going to tell me Phantom Menace not only passes but gets nearly the highest possible rating while Transformers is torn limb from limb, you better have a story that goes with that. And, it better be a story more interesting than, “This has great special effects whereas that has great special effects, but I don’t like it… and it’s loud.””
I would suggest that when Ebert was talking about taking in the sights of TPM, he wasn't just talking about visual *effects*, but *visuals*- art design, shot composition, etc. A movie can have very proficient, convincing effects and be ugly as sin. Michael Bay's aesthetic approach is, well, polarizing- some people find it striking, some can't get past the shakycam and the fact that no shot persists for longer than 3 seconds ever.
And I think Ebert's statement on CRYSTAL SKULL is pretty coherent- all of the silly events in that movie are in-genre. They are things that happen in pulp adventure movies. It has a certain internal consistency to it. Now, I can't speak for REVENGE OF THE FALLEN's consistency or lack thereof- arguably Michael Bay is becoming his own genre- but it's possible to get the mix wrong, so to speak. BATMAN AND ROBIN is a good example- tried to be like the Adam West series, but couldn't sell it.
If this film is getting worse reactions than the Lucas/Spielberg joints mentioned above, I would say that there are other elements at play other than just the plot being perceived as dumb. Plot's just one part of a movie, after all. A lot of critics, Ebert probably included, are getting sick of the no-master-shot, no-tripod, impressionistic style of action movie filming, and Bay takes that to a certain extreme. So if you think that an action sequence needs to be something you can easily follow, there's that element (especially in a movie that's sold entirely as an action thrill ride.)
You can suggest it all you like, but he doesn't say it, and it most definitely isn't something you can legitimately say of Phantom Menace. The movie in its entirety is a lot more like watching someone play a video game than watching a movie.
It's nonsensical, and as I say, it's a movie that is calling the audience stupid.
His statement on Crystal Skull is pretty coherent, but it's bull. Raiders of the Lost Ark is in-genre, pulpy, fun adventure. Crystal Skull is ludicrous.
It's possible to get the mix wrong, of course, and I obviously don't mean to be supporting the idea that Revenge of the Fallen is all that good… it isn't even as good as the first one.
There probably are a lot of other things going on, and Bay is rather silly insofar as many of his techniques, not least of which is his demand to spin the camera around people's heads, but I suggest there are other other things going on as well.
I appreciate the comment, and as I think I said, I certainly have no problem with people not liking the film, or believing that it leaves much to be desired, or even believing that it certainly could have been better. I'm just saying it isn't quite Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever.
Cheers.
“The worlds have to collide somewhere, and if you’re going to tell me Phantom Menace not only passes but gets nearly the highest possible rating while Transformers is torn limb from limb, you better have a story that goes with that. And, it better be a story more interesting than, “This has great special effects whereas that has great special effects, but I don’t like it… and it’s loud.””
I would suggest that when Ebert was talking about taking in the sights of TPM, he wasn't just talking about visual *effects*, but *visuals*- art design, shot composition, etc. A movie can have very proficient, convincing effects and be ugly as sin. Michael Bay's aesthetic approach is, well, polarizing- some people find it striking, some can't get past the shakycam and the fact that no shot persists for longer than 3 seconds ever.
And I think Ebert's statement on CRYSTAL SKULL is pretty coherent- all of the silly events in that movie are in-genre. They are things that happen in pulp adventure movies. It has a certain internal consistency to it. Now, I can't speak for REVENGE OF THE FALLEN's consistency or lack thereof- arguably Michael Bay is becoming his own genre- but it's possible to get the mix wrong, so to speak. BATMAN AND ROBIN is a good example- tried to be like the Adam West series, but couldn't sell it.
If this film is getting worse reactions than the Lucas/Spielberg joints mentioned above, I would say that there are other elements at play other than just the plot being perceived as dumb. Plot's just one part of a movie, after all. A lot of critics, Ebert probably included, are getting sick of the no-master-shot, no-tripod, impressionistic style of action movie filming, and Bay takes that to a certain extreme. So if you think that an action sequence needs to be something you can easily follow, there's that element (especially in a movie that's sold entirely as an action thrill ride.)
You can suggest it all you like, but he doesn't say it, and it most definitely isn't something you can legitimately say of Phantom Menace. The movie in its entirety is a lot more like watching someone play a video game than watching a movie.
It's nonsensical, and as I say, it's a movie that is calling the audience stupid.
His statement on Crystal Skull is pretty coherent, but it's bull. Raiders of the Lost Ark is in-genre, pulpy, fun adventure. Crystal Skull is ludicrous.
It's possible to get the mix wrong, of course, and I obviously don't mean to be supporting the idea that Revenge of the Fallen is all that good… it isn't even as good as the first one.
There probably are a lot of other things going on, and Bay is rather silly insofar as many of his techniques, not least of which is his demand to spin the camera around people's heads, but I suggest there are other other things going on as well.
I appreciate the comment, and as I think I said, I certainly have no problem with people not liking the film, or believing that it leaves much to be desired, or even believing that it certainly could have been better. I'm just saying it isn't quite Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever.
Cheers.
You make some good points, but “Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen” may, in fact, be the worst movie ever made. That statement contains no hyperbole. It is the the most incoherent, unfunny, racist, misogynistic, anti-humanity, anti-intellectual movie I have ever seen. It is a disgrace to cognition; an unprecedented amalgam of badness. It has reached such a level of awfulness that it may warrant inclusion in the Library of Congress as a singular catalyst of mass human de-evolution. It will likely be studied in film schools, and in anthropology, and sociology classes for years as the top scholars in the world attempt to unravel the mysteries of how one human can create something so actively detrimental to the progress of life on earth.
But that just my opinion, of course.
I'm going to have to go with the idea that Gene Siskel's observation works both ways, so I get to say that you're wrong.
Without even going into point by point detail, just the fact that you say it is incoherent speaks to the gross hyperbole you're shooting for with your comment. It isn't the least bit incoherent.
And, in a sort of opposite skew on Ebert's position, if you think this is the worst movie ever, you just haven't seen a lot of movies.
You make some good points, but “Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen” may, in fact, be the worst movie ever made. That statement contains no hyperbole. It is the the most incoherent, unfunny, racist, misogynistic, anti-humanity, anti-intellectual movie I have ever seen. It is a disgrace to cognition; an unprecedented amalgam of badness. It has reached such a level of awfulness that it may warrant inclusion in the Library of Congress as a singular catalyst of mass human de-evolution. It will likely be studied in film schools, and in anthropology, and sociology classes for years as the top scholars in the world attempt to unravel the mysteries of how one human can create something so actively detrimental to the progress of life on earth.
But that just my opinion, of course.
On the contrary, my profession requires that I see upwards of 200 new releases a year and I easily can go as broad or obscure as you'd like in any conversation about film. The fact is, I wish I was exaggerating about this worthless piece of refuse. Incoherence (and it most certainly is incoherent) is the least of its worries. The only hyperbole here is when you say “It isn't the least bit incoherent.” Talk about exaggeration.
I'm going to have to go with the idea that Gene Siskel's observation works both ways, so I get to say that you're wrong.
Without even going into point by point detail, just the fact that you say it is incoherent speaks to the gross hyperbole you're shooting for with your comment. It isn't the least bit incoherent.
And, in a sort of opposite skew on Ebert's position, if you think this is the worst movie ever, you just haven't seen a lot of movies.
Then you're just being purposely obtuse. If you can't name fifty movies worse than this, and you've seen that many films, you're just being silly.
Seriously? Incoherent? The flow of story had no meaningful connection? You couldn't follow the plot? You don't know how we got from point A to point B? Come on.
On the contrary, my profession requires that I see upwards of 200 new releases a year and I easily can go as broad or obscure as you'd like in any conversation about film. The fact is, I wish I was exaggerating about this worthless piece of refuse. Incoherence (and it most certainly is incoherent) is the least of its worries. The only hyperbole here is when you say “It isn't the least bit incoherent.” Talk about exaggeration.
Then you're just being purposely obtuse. If you can't name fifty movies worse than this, and you've seen that many films, you're just being silly.
Seriously? Incoherent? The flow of story had no meaningful connection? You couldn't follow the plot? You don't know how we got from point A to point B? Come on.
I'd be hard pressed to name five. I can usually find at least a couple of redeeming qualities in any movie. But this one? Zero.
Flow of the story? Meaningful connection? Plot? If you are seriously using these terms in reference to this film then I am afraid it is you that is being obtuse.
I'd be hard pressed to name five. I can usually find at least a couple of redeeming qualities in any movie. But this one? Zero.
Flow of the story? Meaningful connection? Plot? If you are seriously using these terms in reference to this film then I am afraid it is you that is being obtuse.
LOL. Seriously? The movie started and then you couldn't piece together what was happening?
Whatever. Nice chatting with you.
Likewise.
LOL. Seriously? The movie started and then you couldn't piece together what was happening?
Whatever. Nice chatting with you.
Likewise.
I agree with Ebert. Transformers was a long, boring and stupid movie. As much as I can enjoy special effects, I do not enjoy being BOMBARDED with EXPLOSION after explOSIon and BIG mechanical THINGs falling down after big MECHanIcal thiNGS falling dOWN and LOTS of DUst in THe air after LotS of dust in the AIR and PEople SCREAMING after people scREamInG and PRODUCT placement after product PLACEMENT and BOgus history aftER boGus HIstORY and Slow MOTioN afTER slOW moTIon anD PeopLE scREaming In slOW Motion after PeopLE scREAming in SlOW MOTION…….. get my drift.
There are also many other things I did not like about that movie (like how budy climbs up the pyramid after the monster and says “remember what I'm doing for MY COUNTRY (America)” while he's in the Middle East fighting aliens trying to destroy the planet… and finally reaches the monster only to call on his radio and say “the monsters at the top of the pyramid!” and climb back down).
While Starwars (all of them are pretty much the same to me, but I do refer to the new ones) and the Davinci Code had similar idiotic plot's, it is not the plot that made me dislike Transformers 1 and 2. The special effects action scenes in Starwars were considerably shorter, less frequent, and in my opinion better done (not technically, but much more intriguing). Also Starwas had better dialogue (duh), there was better character development, and they were made in anticipation of their highly acclaimed predecessors. I could go on forever.
Oh, and I love Papillon, but I am emotionally attached to “prison” movies for some reason.
I agree with Ebert. Transformers was a long, boring and stupid movie. As much as I can enjoy special effects, I do not enjoy being BOMBARDED with EXPLOSION after explOSIon and BIG mechanical THINGs falling down after big MECHanIcal thiNGS falling dOWN and LOTS of DUst in THe air after LotS of dust in the AIR and PEople SCREAMING after people scREamInG and PRODUCT placement after product PLACEMENT and BOgus history aftER boGus HIstORY and Slow MOTioN afTER slOW moTIon anD PeopLE scREaming In slOW Motion after PeopLE scREAming in SlOW MOTION…….. get my drift.
There are also many other things I did not like about that movie (like how budy climbs up the pyramid after the monster and says “remember what I'm doing for MY COUNTRY (America)” while he's in the Middle East fighting aliens trying to destroy the planet… and finally reaches the monster only to call on his radio and say “the monsters at the top of the pyramid!” and climb back down).
While Starwars (all of them are pretty much the same to me, but I do refer to the new ones) and the Davinci Code had similar idiotic plot's, it is not the plot that made me dislike Transformers 1 and 2. The special effects action scenes in Starwars were considerably shorter, less frequent, and in my opinion better done (not technically, but much more intriguing). Also Starwas had better dialogue (duh), there was better character development, and they were made in anticipation of their highly acclaimed predecessors. I could go on forever.
Oh, and I love Papillon, but I am emotionally attached to “prison” movies for some reason.
BRAVO.
Revenge of The Fallen, was a bad movie (and I absolutely loved the first one), but the reaction to it has quite frankly… been absolutely ridicoulous. If a film is poorly done, then by all means, criticism is the best thing available. BUT, complaining that the film is poorly done whilst liking other questionable material for reasons less than the other is honestly not only hypocritical, but not especially intelligent. Not that Revenge of The Fallen was an intelligent movie mind you, but that is beside the point. ALOT of reviews I have read and watched about it; I could barely call reviews at all. There was one by escapist magazine I believe stated that the movie was a movie made by a retard (Mr. Bay of course) FOR RETARDS. I'm sorry; but if you are going to insult the viewer MORE than the film itself supposedly does, you ARE NOT doing your job. A reviewer is supposed to inform the viewer, not tell them they are idiots and rub it in their faces. And Roger Ebert's behaviour is quite honestly disgusting. Writing more than three articles to go with his review and then call people that enjoyed the movie (or parts of it) ''not sufficently evolved'' is appaling. Yes, it was a bad movie. Was it the worst ever made? NOT. EVEN. CLOSE. From what I gather, a review is supposed to balance the pros and cons of the work in question and then come to a conclusion of which it sits closer to on the scales; good or bad. From my perspective, a good deal of reviewers for the film have not been doing their jobs right. And whilst I was hugely dissappointed with the film; were there elements I enjoyed? Yes. Although the negatives outweighed the positives. And I can understand exactly why others might like it more than I. But saying it's bad (or worse) than films that have been reviewed as having the same qualities going for them and then saying the audience has no right to like this movie for the same reasons is bordering on the absurd.
There was one review I read by someone who gave the film a reasonably favourable rating and got lambasted for it because of it. He then mentioned Roger Ebert in defense of his review, who has given higher ratings to films that are arguably, far worse. One of them being Speed 2: Cruise Control.
Honestly, I haven't even seen this much criticism directed at movies like Meet The Spartans, but if someone strapped me to a chair for two hours and shoved that or Revenge of The Fallen in front of me; guess which one I would rather view and just happens to be the better film (FAR better) as well?
So, thank you for such a well written response to Ebert's opinion.
There is a line in subjectivity for what a film equals; but going so far as to denounce the viewers, is neither intelligent, nor helpful.
Bad film; yes.
Worst film ever; NO.
And anyone who makes statements as such, is not especially knowledgeable of film at all.
Thanks very much for the comment. I appreciate you taking the time to add a thoughtful response to the conversation.